Comments on: A Proposal to Create the YouTube of Typefaces http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/ minnesota's interaction design community Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:53:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Darrel http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37772 Darrel Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:15:00 +0000 http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37772 Lots of discussion on this topic (font embedding) as well as the issue of varied licensing over at typophile.com: http://www.typophile.com/node/37793 (beware the uglified April 1 version up today...I'm turning into a curmudgeon...April 1 web sites are getting annoying...) There's several issues, as noted: - commercial typeface developer's concerns re: IP - browser support - end-user control As a graphic designer who loves typography and the web, I'm actually not that hot on this idea. There are more scrapbooking moms on the internet than trained type setters. My fear is MySpace and Facebook creep. ;o) As for free type creation software, realize that that is a very niche market, so we're probably not going to see a lot of competition out there. And to make an OT typeface of any quality (ie, kerning pairs, alternative characters, etc.) ain't easy. http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/ Lots of discussion on this topic (font embedding) as well as the issue of varied licensing over at typophile.com:

http://www.typophile.com/node/37793

(beware the uglified April 1 version up today…I’m turning into a curmudgeon…April 1 web sites are getting annoying…)

There’s several issues, as noted:

- commercial typeface developer’s concerns re: IP
- browser support
- end-user control

As a graphic designer who loves typography and the web, I’m actually not that hot on this idea.

There are more scrapbooking moms on the internet than trained type setters. My fear is MySpace and Facebook creep. ;o)

As for free type creation software, realize that that is a very niche market, so we’re probably not going to see a lot of competition out there. And to make an OT typeface of any quality (ie, kerning pairs, alternative characters, etc.) ain’t easy.

http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/

]]> By: Garrick Van Buren http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37714 Garrick Van Buren Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:34:18 +0000 http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37714 @Paul Armstrong, First, as I mentioned, IE has supported its own method for font embedding since v4.0. If browser support was the issue, we would have seen this long ago. Second, one day, not to long ago, watching, and sharing video online was more difficult. Third, why are you reading the YouTube comments? @Paul Armstrong,

First, as I mentioned, IE has supported its own method for font embedding since v4.0. If browser support was the issue, we would have seen this long ago.

Second, one day, not to long ago, watching, and sharing video online was more difficult.

Third, why are you reading the YouTube comments?

]]> By: jen b http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37708 jen b Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:53:16 +0000 http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37708 Yes. I really had not thought about this. We should have more choices. There is no reason not to. Thanks for surfacing the idea again, you've convinced me to be an advocate! Yes. I really had not thought about this. We should have more choices. There is no reason not to. Thanks for surfacing the idea again, you’ve convinced me to be an advocate!

]]> By: Garrick Van Buren http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37700 Garrick Van Buren Tue, 01 Apr 2008 00:03:22 +0000 http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37700 Paul, thanks for the great comment. Do you know of an open-source or otherwise low-cost typeface creation too? Also, I'm of the belief that without a gazillion ugly typefaces being embedded, we'll never get the good ones. Ever. We haven't had either yet. Paul, thanks for the great comment.

Do you know of an open-source or otherwise low-cost typeface creation too?

Also, I’m of the belief that without a gazillion ugly typefaces being embedded, we’ll never get the good ones. Ever. We haven’t had either yet.

]]> By: Paul Armstrong http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37698 Paul Armstrong Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:55:02 +0000 http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37698 I feel that the two fundamental holes in what you want is (1) the fact that a browser with <5% market share is the only one that currently supports this and (2) creating a font is much more work than just point, click, upload (like YouTube). 1: Sure, this ability is in the CSS spec and it's there to stay, but the question is, "WHEN will other browsers support it, most notably Internet Explorer?" 2: I feel that the quality of the fonts will be of the caliber of YouTube comments... each one you see reduces your IQ. I feel that the two fundamental holes in what you want is (1) the fact that a browser with <5% market share is the only one that currently supports this and (2) creating a font is much more work than just point, click, upload (like YouTube).

1: Sure, this ability is in the CSS spec and it’s there to stay, but the question is, “WHEN will other browsers support it, most notably Internet Explorer?”

2: I feel that the quality of the fonts will be of the caliber of YouTube comments… each one you see reduces your IQ.

]]> By: Paul Ferguson http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37696 Paul Ferguson Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:55:47 +0000 http://mnteractive.com/archive/a-proposal-to-create-the-youtube-of-typefaces/#comment-37696 An excellent topic. I couldn't agree more that we need many, many more options for Web typography... but I think the primary issue is the lack of high-quality typefaces that are openly available, more so than access to the tools and distribution channel. I think the only real solution is for a few enlightened type designers to create a range of new type choices and then offer them for free to anyone who wants them. It is the same basic idea behind open source software. Hell, I suspect you could take up a collection and hire someone to create them. Even a handful would greatly expand the options currently available. I haven't really experimented with font embedding technologies or techniques for some time (aside from the rather dodgy sIFR). But assuming the CSS code you're describing is or becomes reliably cross-browser, that should be all you need. You don't need a centralized location from which to serve typefaces, since they're small (unlike video); you just need permission. And a YouTube-like centralized server wouldn't solve the licensing issue, since it wouldn't be difficult to grab the fonts once they were downloaded (which has been the stumbling block all along). The other aspect of what you're describing, making it free and easy to create your own typefaces, doesn't strike me as a serious need -- the Internet is replete with crappy, amateur-designed typefaces, many of which are free to use. Faced with making the rest of the Web look, to use your example, like MySpace, I'd rather just stick with Arial, Helvetica, Times and Georgia. An excellent topic. I couldn’t agree more that we need many, many more options for Web typography… but I think the primary issue is the lack of high-quality typefaces that are openly available, more so than access to the tools and distribution channel.

I think the only real solution is for a few enlightened type designers to create a range of new type choices and then offer them for free to anyone who wants them. It is the same basic idea behind open source software. Hell, I suspect you could take up a collection and hire someone to create them. Even a handful would greatly expand the options currently available.

I haven’t really experimented with font embedding technologies or techniques for some time (aside from the rather dodgy sIFR). But assuming the CSS code you’re describing is or becomes reliably cross-browser, that should be all you need. You don’t need a centralized location from which to serve typefaces, since they’re small (unlike video); you just need permission. And a YouTube-like centralized server wouldn’t solve the licensing issue, since it wouldn’t be difficult to grab the fonts once they were downloaded (which has been the stumbling block all along).

The other aspect of what you’re describing, making it free and easy to create your own typefaces, doesn’t strike me as a serious need — the Internet is replete with crappy, amateur-designed typefaces, many of which are free to use. Faced with making the rest of the Web look, to use your example, like MySpace, I’d rather just stick with Arial, Helvetica, Times and Georgia.

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